Greed. You preach against greed. I’m sorry to point out this to you, because you give discourses on how to be free from greed. Are you free from greed? No. Do you want to be free from greed?
Q: No [Laughter]
UG: No. Why the hell are you asking to begin with? I am sorry to spotlight you and put you in that spotlight. So you tell me. I don’t know if there is such thing as greed. If there is a greed it is operating here in this moment in you. I don’t like to use that word bastard, but you are the greediest bastard in this moment. I am using this only to drive it home for you. So you think that I have ‘something’, which you want. If there is money you can rob a bank and take the money. There is something there. But here, it is your ‘assumption’ that I have something, that I am functioning differently, that I am this, that and the other. You want to be like me. If that is not greed, what else is it? She is laughing.
Q: She knows I’m greedy. [Laughter]
UG: When are you going to be free from greed? When are you going to say, “I’m
greediest man”? Right? When are you going to be free from greed? When? Tell me.
UG: It is in operation here. The solution for the greed, if at all you are interested in freeing yourself from greed, is to allow that greed to fill the whole of your being. Every cell in your body, everything in that body should vibrate with that greed. By wanting to be free from greed, for whatever reason you want to be free from greed, you are destroying the possibility of freeing yourself from greed. Through greed you’ll be free from greed. Are you ready to accept it? It is the selfishness that will free you from selfishness, and not the preaching or practice of selfishness.
UG: Those Zen bastards! They institutionalized meditation. Jokers! I was never attracted to Zen masters. Never! Because they were all the followers of Buddha and what Buddhism tried to preach to the world. So reject it. You all are them! They institutionalized the whole thing. They invented the techniques of meditation.
Q: The Hindus say that the Upanishads are much superior.
UG: Who? They have to because they are Indian.
Q: At least the Upanishads have not institutionalized those things.
UG: They created these metaphysics, the intellectuals. And what you find in Upanishads is not the people whom they are talking about, but the aspirations of those people who ‘want’ to be that state. That’s why Buddha had too much intellectual nonsense. That fellow didn’t have the guts, sir, to go to the end. And when he had this experience he said, as long as there is a single soul imprisoned in the veil of illusion I refuse to enter the gates of Nirvana. He never entered the gates of Nirvana – he refused for the sake of mankind; like the politicians talking of mankind, humanity, you know? And then for the first time in the history of mankind he introduced the element of conversion, proselytization. He created a sangha- he moved from place to place, followed by all these people, and he wouldn’t allow women to join his order for a long time. There were a lot of protestations. Finally he relented and admitted them also. Then came along – this is my reading of history, take it or leave it – an Ashoka, the King, and he used that as an instrument of power, very forcibly in this country. But then Jainism spread in the South, not Buddhism. That’s why you have so many Jain temples. The place where I grew up is called “the place of temples”. Not Buddhist temples, but Jain monasteries. A lot of prostitutes lived there, along with of course…they go together: prostitutes and spiritual teachers. It is not a religion.
Q: But what is the story that he refused to enter paradise?
UG: He didn’t have the guts. He stopped with some pretty little mystical experience, like anybody else. Like all these gurus you have in the market place. Even Ramana Maharishi stopped there. All of them. That prevents the possibility of these people coming out with something original. So they have to rely upon the authority of the scriptures, and then they interpret. How can a fellow that has written four volumes talk of enlightenment? Tell me. And claim that he is an enlightened man? He cannot do that. It’s a sales speech. They sell that stuff to the poor people. There is authority for them. The filthy word using – enlightenment. Sorry, sir.
Q: Buddha had authority?
UG: No, no, not at all. It was all political, the man, the King Ashoka. Otherwise, Buddhism, Christianity, Islam would have remained small cults. They became the instruments of power. They forced…of course, they didn’t use violence here in this country, but when Buddhism spread to Japan, particularly, the monasteries maintained armies – trained armies – and supplied them to the rival kings. That’s a trait of holiness. Sanyasins never existed in India. It is difficult to understand because you are all sanyasins. [Laughter]. Because you’ve made a business out of that.
Q: Do you say that Buddha is not at all original?
UG: Not at all. He pretended like J. Krishnamurti – original – by not using any authority that existed before. Because that is what the Upanishads said: it is an authority of its own, so I am “pramanya”, I think. Why should I quote that nonsense? I must wash my mouth. [Laughter]
Q: Buddha is very original.
UG: It is all intellectual nonsense. Not original, all saints do that, what did he do? No, sir. The monasteries supplied armies to the rival kings. The founder of Zen, the first fellow who went there, Bodhidharma, called Buddha a barbarian, and said that Buddhist teachings are nothing but toilet paper. He had the guts to say that in the 7th century! He is quoted there.
Q: The emperor asked him, what is the holy teaching of the Buddha? And he said, no holiness, just…
UG: Kill him, he said. If you meet Buddha kill him. Well, anyway, why do you need a Buddha? It’s the same as Christianity, the conversion – with violence! You may say Buddhism is not violent – Indians are cowards. You swallow anything! Hinduism is not a religion at all like Judaism. It’s social, political, economic, a lot of things put together. It’s just a way of life and way of thinking, nothing else. That is culture. It is not art, beauty, poetry, music – that is not culture. So that is part of your thinking. You think that you are superior to me because you are a swami. What have you renounced? You have not renounced anything. And the second thing is, they pick up a new job, a new language, use that and feel great.T that’s all. Use those words, Krishnamurti lingo.
“A truly religious person does not want anything for himself [laughter], but it is the responsibility of you all [laughter] to see that my teaching is ‘the’ teaching, and should be preserved for posterity in its pristine purity. So give liberally to my cause.” [Laughter]
Q: He uttered that?
UG: Sure, he said “cause”. You see, he was brought up in poor conditions. He didn’t have everything in his life. Here it is the other way around. Buddha was born a king. Anything I wanted I could have had. Anything, anything in the world, I has as a matter of fact, everything that one could reasonably ask for. If I wanted to buy a Rolls-Royce car, just in a jiffy…by writing a check on the Imperial Bank of India I could buy, so you see. Money was not, in that sense, a primary preoccupation. That is not my interest. See, I knew how you could make money. If I decided myself to money I would have been the world’s richest man – world’s richest! All the billionaires in America would be insignificant. That was not my interest. My only interest was to be certain that Buddha was a conman. These people around you, the claimants, are not really the genuine people. There is a dichotomy in their lives – what they said and what…
Some More Excerpts:
The fact of the matter is that when once you have everything that you can reasonably ask for in this world, when all the material needs are taken care of naturally the question arises, “Is that all?” And once you pose that question to yourself – “Is that all?” – a tremendous market for this kind of a business is created: a holy business. And they are exploiting the gullibility and credibility of people, not helping them to resolve the basic problem, the human problem. So you don’t want to be a normal person, you don’t want to be an ordinary person. That is really the problem. It’s the most difficult thing is to be an ordinary person. Culture demands that you must be something other than what you are. That has set in momentum this tremendous, powerful movement of thought which demands that you should be something other than what you are.
Every gland in my body, every cell in my body, has undergone a radical mutation. Why do I use the word mutation? Because I can’t think of a more appropriate word. Every gland has undergone a transformation because it seems to be functioning in a different way. The brain waves are incredible, and I would very much like to have the opportunity to use a brain wave machine. The electricity that goes out of my body is tremendous since there is no point inside of me. There is no space for me at all. Then it expands. The electricity that is generated in this body goes to the end of the universe, affecting the whole thing. When I come out of this state, whatever you call it, the whole body is filled with peace. It’s some kind of a substance like a white substance. The whole body is filled with this white substance. You can look at it and it shines like a phosphoresce. It’s the whole body.
About the Book:
‘Thought Is Dead’ is a unique selection of mostly unpublished and rare transcripts of U.G. Krishnamurti in dialogue, including a particularly rare discussion with renowned physicist David Bohm. U.G. explains how our desire for spiritual enlightenment is a greed, like any other, and that we are operating as a complex set of machinery. In addition U.G. details, in a step-by-step account, the mysterious process by which his consciousness underwent a complete transformation.
About the Author:
Uppaluri Gopala Krishnamurti (July 9, 1918 – March 22, 2007), known as U.G. Krishnamurti, or just U.G., was an Indian sage who spoke of his enlightenment openly. Although necessary for day to day functioning of the individual, in terms of the Ultimate Reality or Truth he rejected the very basis of thought and in doing so negated all systems of thought and knowledge in reference to It.
Thought is Dead: Moving Beyond Spiritual Materialism
By UG Krishnamurti
Paperback: 180 pages
Publisher: CreateSpace (July 31, 2010)
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