A Conversation between David Bohm and U.G. Krishnamurti

January 31, 2011

David Bohm and UG Krishnamurti Conversation

David Joseph Bohm (20 December 1917 – 27 October 1992) was an American-born British quantum physicist who made contributions in the fields of theoretical physics, philosophy and neuropsychology, and to the Manhattan Project [wikipdia]. Bohm, considered one of the best quantum physicists of all time., has had conversations with Jiddu Krishanmurti, U.G. Krishnamurti and also later with Dalai Lama. At length Bohm deals with the ‘thought’ in his book, ‘Thought as a System’ (1992) and he clearly sees the ‘destructive force’ in the ‘thought’ of the mankind; he was a ‘thought physicist’ too in that sense, so to say.

In a rather rare conversation between David Bohm and U.G. Krishnamurti happened on 17 Aug 1968, UG reveals and relates about the ‘natural state’ that he stumbled upon in 1967 in a more physical body terms. The Thought Knowledge Perception Institute has made these conversations accessible on their site. Here is the 1 of the 16 video clippings of that conversations now available on the youtube also:

The conversation happened between David Brohm and U.G. Krishnamurti is also featured in the recently published book, ‘The Biology of Enlightenment’, edited by Mukunda Rao. [Link]

The following ‘background text’ is sourced from the site of  Thought Knowledge Perception Institute:

This conversation took place on August 17, 1968 and the recording lasts for 2 hours and 50 minutes.

Most people are aware of David Bohm’s friendship with Jiddu Krishnamurti. David also had a lengthy conversation with U.G. Krishnamurti on at least one occasion. Many comparisons have been made between Jiddu and U.G. Krishnamurti (no relation) with some people saying that their message are essentially the same. Other people are quick to point out that U.G. was critical of Jiddu and that U.G. was more sweeping in his denial of any kind of pursuit of awareness or meaning to life whereas Jiddu would talk about choiceless awareness, insight, ending thought, and the like.

The recording starts off with U.G. asking David to get the ball rolling and David asks about the “unusual experiences” he heard that U.G. had. U.G. then goes onto to describe the new state of being that came about for him in an unexpected way. U.G. goes into detail about how the experience felt along with the accompanying physical changes. U.G. goes on to say that he feels like he was woken up from a slumber for the first time in his life and from then on thought never operated in the same way in him again. U.G. sums up his experience as the mental functioning coming to an end, the body taking over, life expressing itself, and the “I” not referring to anything substantial. U.G. spends a good amount of time describing how he interacts with objects now that thought is different in him and what it means to see something.

Until about 73 minutes in, U.G. dominates the conversation and David Bohm listens and does not say much. After 40 somewhat minutes in U.G. talks a bit about what he was trying to discover since he was 14 (if there was anything behind all the abstractions the spiritual people were espousing) as well as some comments on the nature of thought and awareness. At one hour in U.G. is continuing to talk about the nature of thought.

After about 73 minutes Bohm starts to talk about thought and relevance and seeing when our judgements of relevance are relevant or irrelevant. Bohm points out how thought brings in irrelevant content that disturbs the function of the brain. Bohm goes on to talk about description and inference, the fundamental activity of science, and taking descriptions as what is. U.G. ends up being the main speaker again until about 93 minutes in where Bohm starts to talk about language as action and the difference between verbal and non-verbal action and the harmony (the lack-there-of) between the two.

Bohm states that the form of our language is out of harmony with its content. Bohm describes how this disharmony leads to confusion and incoherence. Bohm calls for attention to the form of our language and our judgements of relevance and irrelevance.

At times it appears that U.G. is trying to get Bohm to drop his ideas and concepts altogether and see that there is a way of operating that is beyond the structure of thought. Bohm on the other hand seems to feel that despite some things being beyond thought there is still a worthwhile dialogue that can be engaged in and that there is meaning and value in looking at all of these things (thought, language, awareness, communication, etc.) together.

At 110 minutes in Bohm again speaks about language, communication, emotion, and notions of relevance and irrelevance. The conversation then focuses on thought’s nature and seeing what it is doing and how it produces experiences and several other subjects that will be familiar to people who have read Bohm’s written work. The aforementioned subjects are explored in greater depth for the remainder of the recording.

For someone who has heard Bohm’s conversations with Jiddu Krishnamurti you cannot help but feel that David Bohm and U.G. Krishnamurti never really saw eye to eye or really built up much along the same line together during this recording like Bohm was able to with Jiddu. There were times where David and U.G. seemed to exploring together but U.G. would quite often end the conversation with a finalistic or dismissive statement, and at other times Bohm would go into great detail explaining things that U.G. seemed uninterested in or perhaps was not understanding. Yet there were also moments where once senses an agreement between David and U.G. All in all this recording serves as a good glimpse into U.G.’s autobiography in regards to his life changing experience, and a good glimpse into Bohm’s earlier ideas about thought.

 


Mass Deaths of Birds, Fish, Animals across the Globe: A Sign of Apocalypse?

January 10, 2011

Apocalypse 2012?

There has been strange reports of massive cold waves, ash waves, snow waves, and sudden mass deaths of animals, “Our pattern-seeking brains and desire to be special help explain our fears of the apocalypse.”
Michael Moyer
fish, birds and bees across the globe in the recent past. Is it a sign of Apocalypse or mere stranded cases that are yet to be studied by our scientists and prove otherwise?

  • Blue stain believed to be sign of poisoning or hypoxia – lack of oxygen that is precursor to altitude sickness
  • Cold weather and overbreeding blamed for deaths of two 2million fish in Chesapeake Bay
  • Disease behind deaths of 100,000 fish in Arkansas River
  • At least nine incidents of mass animal deaths across the globe
  • Hundreds of confused birds plummeted to their deaths in multiple locations in the U.S.
  • Rapid movement of Magnetic North Pole towards Russia may have caused bird deaths

Here is a recent news report on [the dailymail.co.uk], reported on 10 Jan 2011.
Some related links there:
(1) Thread: Mass Global Deaths Of Animals !!! What’s Happening with the World ? [Link]
(2) mass death of birds and fish – time to learn and move to harmony [Link
(3) Birds and Fish Dying a Coincidence Experts Say [Link]
(4) Why are all our bees dying: sure sign of apocalypse or eclipse [Link]
(5) NASA warns solar flares from ‘huge space storm’ will cause massive devastation around 2013 [Link]
(6) Eternal Fascinations with the End: Why We’re Suckers for Stories of Our Own Demise
By Michael Moyer


From Disease to Divinity

December 19, 2010

The great debunker (UG) of any belief system talks with Luc Sala in
Amsterdam about “The black hole of (any) belief”, from disease to divinity. UG died 22 march 2007. A critical interview.


If Einstein Were Here Right Now, I Could Shut Him Up In One Minute

August 29, 2010

Einstein

“Chandrasekhar, please come here,” called U.G. leaning against the parapet wall on the terrace. I approached him quickly wondering what he might show me. U.G.’s attention was on the road. The branches of Valentine’s tree spread widely above us like an open umbrella. “Can you see the space between those branches and the vehicles passing on the road?” asked U.G.

“Yes, why not? No matter how bent the branches are, the eyes can see the space between them and the road behind them,” I replied.

“I cannot. All that seems like a two dimensional picture to me. My eyes can see everything in front, one thing after another, but they cannot see the space among them. There are no measurements such as length and breadth, let alone depth. I maintain that the physical eye cannot see the third dimension. Our minds interpret what we see as the third dimension, but the eyes don’t tell us that there is space. When the present-day scientists talk about the fourth dimension on top of the three dimensions, I feel like breaking their teeth. Where is that fourth dimension? I say that even the third dimension is a lie. If Einstein were here right now, I could shut him up in one minute,” U.G. said. With that my mouth closed shut.

The above excerpts are sourced from:
Stopped In Our Tracks
(2nd/3rd Series) Stories of U.G. In India from the Notebooks of K. Chandrasekhar Translated and Edited by J.S.R.L. Narayana Moorty
Read on Links:
(1) u-g-krishnamurti.blogspot
(2) newsgroups.derkeiler


Even an Ant can Beat Us

August 27, 2010

Ants Intelligence

Humans need to be more humble to understand that our intelligence is just peanut, and that even an ant can beat us.

An interesting paper just published in BMC Biology:

A mixed community of actinomycetes produce multiple antibiotics for the fungus farming ant Acromyrmex octospinosus. Barke J, Seipke RF, Gruschow S, Heavens D, Drou N, Bibb MJ, Goss RJM, Yu DW, Hutchings MI BMC Biology 2010, 8:109
Published: 26 August 2010
The (provisional) Full-Text of this paper may also be accessed [Link]

Interesting reports on this paper there:
Ants found to use multiple antibiotics as weed killers
Scientists at the University of East Anglia, have shown that fungus-farming ants are using multiple antibiotics as weed killers to maintain their fungus gardens.
[Link]
Ants ahead of humans in antibiotic use
Read more: http://xenophilius.wordpress.com

The Excerpts from the above links are reproduced here:

Research led by Dr Matt “It’s also very exciting that ants not only evolved agriculture before humans but also combination therapy with natural antibiotics. Humans are just starting to realise that this is one way to slow down the rise of drug resistant bacteria – the so called superbugs.”
– Dr Matt Hutchings
Hutchings and published today in the journal BMC Biology shows that ants use the antibiotics to inhibit the growth of unwanted fungi and bacteria in their fungus cultures which they use to feed their larvae and queen.

These antibiotics are produced by actinomycete bacteria that live on the ants in a mutual
symbiosis.

Although these ants have been studied for more than 100 years this is the first demonstration that a single ant colony uses multiple antibiotics and is reminiscent of the use of multidrug therapy to treat infections in humans.

The work, which was funded by the UK Medical Research Council, has also identified a new antibiotic that could be used to treat fungal infections.

Fungiculture in the insect world is practiced by ants, termites, beetles and gall midges.

Dr Hutchings’ research investigates the Acromyrmex octospinosus leaf cutter ant, endemic in South and Central America and the southern US. These ants form the largest and most complex animal societies on earth with colonies of up to several million individuals. The garden worker ants researched were collected from three colonies in Trinidad and Tobago.

“How strange humans are! Despite their claims of high intelligence and great wisdom, they are the only animals that dirty air they breathe, poison the water they drink, and kill the soil that is the base of their food.”
– Tony Oposa Jr
(source)
Dr Hutchings said: “This was really a fun project which started with a PhD student, Joerg Barke, streaking leaf-cutting ants onto agar plates to isolate antibiotic producing bacteria. Joerg, with his colleagues Ryan Seipke and Sabine Gruschow, really pushed this project forwards and made these major discoveries. They really deserve most of the credit for this work.”

“We found a new antifungal compound that is related to a clinically important antifungal named nystatin so we’re excited about the potential of these ants and other insects to provide us with new antibiotics for medical use.

“It’s also very exciting that ants not only evolved agriculture before humans but also combination therapy with natural antibiotics. Humans are just starting to realise that this is one way to slow down the rise of drug resistant bacteria – the so called superbugs.”

“We are not created for any grander purpose than the ants that are there or the flies that are hovering around us or the mosquitoes that are sucking our blood.”
– UG


Even the Gods’ own food could not protect the ancient Egyptian priests from killing

February 26, 2010

Mummy Tummy FeastAn interesting rare insight-giving research article published in a recent issue of The Lancet may shed some amazing startling lights on ‘the gods, feasts, foods and rituals’ – all directly linked to the arteries and diseases among the ancient Egyptian priests. Now they say atherosclerosis – a blocked arteries disease – is no more a 20th century disease, but ‘history revisiting us’, to put it more appropriately.

The scientists studied the temple inscriptions and descriptions (not prescriptions!) encrypted or depicted on the walls of the ancient ‘There is unequivocal evidence to show that atherosclerosis is a disease of ancient times.’
Professor Tony Heagerty, Cardiovascular Research Group, Manchester University
Egyptian temples that listed out the food itinerary or menus of the rich ritual foods or feasts offered to the Gods by the ancient priests. At the end of the day of ritual (everybody knows the Gods could not or did not eat the foods or feasts offered to them, but the priests till today go on offering more and more rich foods to the Gods, but we do not know why?), the priests grabbed, packed all the rich ritual foods and carried home and they and their families ate the same together with grand fervors and celebrations to their hearts content. It is revealed Professor Rosalie David, an egyptologist from the University of Manchester, said:
“There couldn’t be a more evocative message: live like a god and you will pay with your health.”
that these ‘god meals’ were of beef, goose, bread, fruit, vegetables, cake, wine and beer, offered three times a day. To arrive at the conclusion, the scientists scanned and studied the arteries of priests’ mummified remains and found that many had blocked arteries – a clear link between the rich ritual foods and the artery disease. [Please read this interesting story full on the BBC News Link there: Ancient Egyptian priests ‘killed by rich ritual food’].


Mankind’s Hunt For More Extra Earth-Like Planets To Loot And Pollute

January 3, 2010

In spite of Super Earths Galaxyall the progresses and developments that have been made on this earth, we have not yet learned to live on this planet. The human species have looted and polluted this earth beyond repair and we have no slightest repentance for that either. It is sheer arrogance and ignorance on the part of the mankind to think that human species are supreme and superior. We Inspite of all the progresses and developments that have been made on this earth, we have not yet learned to live on this planet.used and abused both living and non-living resources for all our insatiable greed beyond our necessary need. Almost all our so called greed and comfort mongering acts have turned out to be self-killing along with millions of other innocent living beings on this planet earth. We have now almost made this earth as uninhabitable and unenviable – and we want to dump it and embark on new earth planets. The strange paradox is that the existence is so abundant that it can throw out many more earth like planets to us.

Our scientists are busy with hunting for extra earth-like Super Earths 2008planets so that mankind can survive and live on; and they can continue their looting spree life there too. As the recent report reveals, ‘an international team of planet hunters has discovered as many as six low-mass planets around two nearby Sun-like stars, including two “super-Earths” with masses 5 and 7.5 times the mass of Earth. The researchers, led by Steven Vogt of the University of California, Santa Cruz, and Paul Butler of the Carnegie Institution of Washington, said the two “super-Earths” are the first ones found around Sun-like stars.’ [Link] This kind of discovery news would always give a new boost for our speculation of the possibility of life elsewhere in the universe, as well.

This discovery report also says, “these detections indicate that low-mass planets are quite common around nearby stars. The discovery of potentially habitable nearby worlds may be just a few years away.”

The imminent implication of this discovery of new extra earth like planets is simply that the mankind may embark on a new kind Unless the mankind awakens to the ‘natural order’ of this existence, equally seeded in each of the human as well as other living beings, there is absolutely no hope for the survival of human species.of war and bloodshed in the name of this new found extrterrestial territory rights and supremacy. Super power countries and heads will fight tooth and nail for their supremacy, control and guarded interest.

One thing is sure: No number of extra earth like earth planets can match the ‘greed’ of gone case human species. Unless Planet Super Earthmankind awakens to the ‘natural order’ of this existence, equally seeded in each of the human as well as other living beings, there is absolutely no hope for the survival of human species. This is the last hope. At the last resort, the existence may not hesitate to wipe out the whole human species from the face of this earth, if the situation warrants. Let us hope and act for the best.