A Conversation between David Bohm and U.G. Krishnamurti

January 31, 2011

David Bohm and UG Krishnamurti Conversation

David Joseph Bohm (20 December 1917 – 27 October 1992) was an American-born British quantum physicist who made contributions in the fields of theoretical physics, philosophy and neuropsychology, and to the Manhattan Project [wikipdia]. Bohm, considered one of the best quantum physicists of all time., has had conversations with Jiddu Krishanmurti, U.G. Krishnamurti and also later with Dalai Lama. At length Bohm deals with the ‘thought’ in his book, ‘Thought as a System’ (1992) and he clearly sees the ‘destructive force’ in the ‘thought’ of the mankind; he was a ‘thought physicist’ too in that sense, so to say.

In a rather rare conversation between David Bohm and U.G. Krishnamurti happened on 17 Aug 1968, UG reveals and relates about the ‘natural state’ that he stumbled upon in 1967 in a more physical body terms. The Thought Knowledge Perception Institute has made these conversations accessible on their site. Here is the 1 of the 16 video clippings of that conversations now available on the youtube also:

The conversation happened between David Brohm and U.G. Krishnamurti is also featured in the recently published book, ‘The Biology of Enlightenment’, edited by Mukunda Rao. [Link]

The following ‘background text’ is sourced from the site of  Thought Knowledge Perception Institute:

This conversation took place on August 17, 1968 and the recording lasts for 2 hours and 50 minutes.

Most people are aware of David Bohm’s friendship with Jiddu Krishnamurti. David also had a lengthy conversation with U.G. Krishnamurti on at least one occasion. Many comparisons have been made between Jiddu and U.G. Krishnamurti (no relation) with some people saying that their message are essentially the same. Other people are quick to point out that U.G. was critical of Jiddu and that U.G. was more sweeping in his denial of any kind of pursuit of awareness or meaning to life whereas Jiddu would talk about choiceless awareness, insight, ending thought, and the like.

The recording starts off with U.G. asking David to get the ball rolling and David asks about the “unusual experiences” he heard that U.G. had. U.G. then goes onto to describe the new state of being that came about for him in an unexpected way. U.G. goes into detail about how the experience felt along with the accompanying physical changes. U.G. goes on to say that he feels like he was woken up from a slumber for the first time in his life and from then on thought never operated in the same way in him again. U.G. sums up his experience as the mental functioning coming to an end, the body taking over, life expressing itself, and the “I” not referring to anything substantial. U.G. spends a good amount of time describing how he interacts with objects now that thought is different in him and what it means to see something.

Until about 73 minutes in, U.G. dominates the conversation and David Bohm listens and does not say much. After 40 somewhat minutes in U.G. talks a bit about what he was trying to discover since he was 14 (if there was anything behind all the abstractions the spiritual people were espousing) as well as some comments on the nature of thought and awareness. At one hour in U.G. is continuing to talk about the nature of thought.

After about 73 minutes Bohm starts to talk about thought and relevance and seeing when our judgements of relevance are relevant or irrelevant. Bohm points out how thought brings in irrelevant content that disturbs the function of the brain. Bohm goes on to talk about description and inference, the fundamental activity of science, and taking descriptions as what is. U.G. ends up being the main speaker again until about 93 minutes in where Bohm starts to talk about language as action and the difference between verbal and non-verbal action and the harmony (the lack-there-of) between the two.

Bohm states that the form of our language is out of harmony with its content. Bohm describes how this disharmony leads to confusion and incoherence. Bohm calls for attention to the form of our language and our judgements of relevance and irrelevance.

At times it appears that U.G. is trying to get Bohm to drop his ideas and concepts altogether and see that there is a way of operating that is beyond the structure of thought. Bohm on the other hand seems to feel that despite some things being beyond thought there is still a worthwhile dialogue that can be engaged in and that there is meaning and value in looking at all of these things (thought, language, awareness, communication, etc.) together.

At 110 minutes in Bohm again speaks about language, communication, emotion, and notions of relevance and irrelevance. The conversation then focuses on thought’s nature and seeing what it is doing and how it produces experiences and several other subjects that will be familiar to people who have read Bohm’s written work. The aforementioned subjects are explored in greater depth for the remainder of the recording.

For someone who has heard Bohm’s conversations with Jiddu Krishnamurti you cannot help but feel that David Bohm and U.G. Krishnamurti never really saw eye to eye or really built up much along the same line together during this recording like Bohm was able to with Jiddu. There were times where David and U.G. seemed to exploring together but U.G. would quite often end the conversation with a finalistic or dismissive statement, and at other times Bohm would go into great detail explaining things that U.G. seemed uninterested in or perhaps was not understanding. Yet there were also moments where once senses an agreement between David and U.G. All in all this recording serves as a good glimpse into U.G.’s autobiography in regards to his life changing experience, and a good glimpse into Bohm’s earlier ideas about thought.

 


Even the Gods’ own food could not protect the ancient Egyptian priests from killing

February 26, 2010

Mummy Tummy FeastAn interesting rare insight-giving research article published in a recent issue of The Lancet may shed some amazing startling lights on ‘the gods, feasts, foods and rituals’ – all directly linked to the arteries and diseases among the ancient Egyptian priests. Now they say atherosclerosis – a blocked arteries disease – is no more a 20th century disease, but ‘history revisiting us’, to put it more appropriately.

The scientists studied the temple inscriptions and descriptions (not prescriptions!) encrypted or depicted on the walls of the ancient ‘There is unequivocal evidence to show that atherosclerosis is a disease of ancient times.’
Professor Tony Heagerty, Cardiovascular Research Group, Manchester University
Egyptian temples that listed out the food itinerary or menus of the rich ritual foods or feasts offered to the Gods by the ancient priests. At the end of the day of ritual (everybody knows the Gods could not or did not eat the foods or feasts offered to them, but the priests till today go on offering more and more rich foods to the Gods, but we do not know why?), the priests grabbed, packed all the rich ritual foods and carried home and they and their families ate the same together with grand fervors and celebrations to their hearts content. It is revealed Professor Rosalie David, an egyptologist from the University of Manchester, said:
“There couldn’t be a more evocative message: live like a god and you will pay with your health.”
that these ‘god meals’ were of beef, goose, bread, fruit, vegetables, cake, wine and beer, offered three times a day. To arrive at the conclusion, the scientists scanned and studied the arteries of priests’ mummified remains and found that many had blocked arteries – a clear link between the rich ritual foods and the artery disease. [Please read this interesting story full on the BBC News Link there: Ancient Egyptian priests ‘killed by rich ritual food’].


Feel the Pulse of Body

October 30, 2008

art.johntunger.comart.johntunger.com“Unless you feel the very
pulse of every
pore and chore
of your body,
you will never
be living, but living dead.”


Sulochanosho’s
All Postings

[HOME]


Please note: Nothing is oneman’s work or mission. Please be part of this small ‘hammering’ mission and be part of the move and moment. Your views may speak more than you assume in this mission. Do air and share your views/comments in these pages. Let’s do it together.



Body is God, Nothing Beyond

August 7, 2008

GURU=URUG

GURU=URUG

We have exchanged enough of UG garbages or sermons in that sense, under UG: A Unique Guy, the very first post of this forum. UG was very adamant and one-pointed in his utterances and convictions. We find no split of ‘mind versus body’ stance in him. For him everything is a non-split one entity. He debunked all splitting spirituality, philosophy, sermons and religions – because a made of or mode of UG just can not ‘see’ any ‘sense’ there, rather all these stuffs are good enough to sermonise, philosophise and commercialize without an iota of glimpse of life force there.

For UG everything is a body phenomenon – no holy sermons required there. No guru has any business there. Our body is embodied with everything that is needed. For we people it’s very hard to digest or conceive. But UG just ‘sees’ it, ‘lives’ it. He is not putting any intellectual efforts – borrowed or otherwise, to ‘see’ the things, to ‘say’ the things. He shatters all our sense and logic at one stroke. UG often says that he incidentally entered upon a new biological transformation state without any effort or expectation from his side – which he says is beyond words and explanations; it is simply acausal. He says, I dont see any psychology there. He simply says mind is myth. He says we are trapped under the borrowed accumulated holy sermons and experiences and there remains no knowledge or experience that truly of an individual. Everything is perverted and converted.

It’s true that it is very hard to digest UG for us. But UG was very adamant in his convictions and seeings till the very last breath of his life. Even in a split of second UG never splits his one-pointed state of seeing. For UG all the holy words are the most ugly and dirty scars on the face of humanity. He always used to say in the most gross terms that our body is interested only in two things: survival and fucking. All the rest is mere empty philosophies and sermons, which can only make the people swerve from the life force there, in their vain search of a mirage there up in the heaven.

The following Video link on UG’s parting message from his ‘death’ bed may make this point very clear:


Sulochanosho’s
All Postings

[HOME]


Please note: Nothing is oneman’s work or mission. Please be part of this small ‘hammering’ mission and be part of the move and moment. Your views may speak more than you assume in this mission. Do air and share your views/comments in these pages. Let’s do it together.